Curse

Lorekeeper · Nov 02, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Not sure if im allowed to post this, but on the official wiki Izzy has posted a list of things he is dealing with in the upcoming skill balances... ill post them here for convenience but if i break any rules i will just provide a link for people to look at instead...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy from official wiki 31/10/2007

I'm working on Next balance update, so I'll be checking out the forums. Here are the list of issues I'm looking into.

* Spiritway
* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall
* Bloodspike

here are my ideas on each separate item.

1) spiritway

i) Rampage as One - 25e 10s recharge Elite Skill. For 3...13...15 seconds, both you and your animal companion attack 33% faster and run 25% faster.

---> reduce attack speed buff to 25% and change duration scale to 3...10...12

2) dual clumsiness builds

i) significantly reduce duration of ineptitude and clumsiness hexes to prevent easy overlap and more active use. Perhaps make them last a few seconds only.
ii) reduce the effectiveness of auspicious incantation + conjure nightmare by increasing recharge of auspicious and/or its cast time and/or reduce percentage of energy gained on next spell use.

3) ancestors rage spike

i) reduce dmg of ancestors rage... or increase energy cost... or increase casting time... or increase recharge. If you want this skill to be a spike skill... just increase the recharge and cost and maybe its cast time. If you want it to promote more pressure play decrease the dmg by a fair amount, say to 30...70...90 and reduce the recharge to match.

4) splinter weapon at VoD

i) this wipes out balled up NPCs in seconds... which is both an indication of its potential strength... it does 40+ dmg to ALL adjacent foes, and when used on a dervish which already crits for massive amounts of AOE dmg it becomes seriously destructive at VoD. But what happens if NPCs were smarter at VoD? What if they were smart enough to avoid getting balled up? What if they actively made attempts to spread out no matter where they were on their predetermined path towards their final positions at the flag stand? What if they moved around obstacles that got in their way? Surely if NPCs more closely mirrored what a human player might do when faced with splinter weapon frontliners... the potential destruction of splinter weapon at VoD would be reduced?

ii) alternatively modify the skill to only affect a certain number of foes for every charge it provides.

Weapon Spell. For 20 seconds, target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1...4...5 attacks deal 5...41...50 damage to a maximum of 2 (perhaps 3) adjacent foes.

5) 3 monk backlines

this is too complicated. there are multiple threads discussing why we see 3 monkbacklines... splits involving SP sins, the effect of mend touch on the split meta, the effect of LOD on split meta, the hits to passive defense that have effected the defensive meta, over reliance on LoD and the effect on the defensive meta, the inability of 2 monk backlines to keep up with the ever increasing dmg in GvG, especially at VoD. You cant seriously stop people from running 3 monk backlines without seriously tackling a wide variety of issues plaguing game balance or without severely gimping monks so badly that running 3 is a bad idea.

6) recall

i) reduce maintainable range of this to half radar range, meaning sins cannot anchor at or close to the stand while at the same time being in enemy base.

7) bloodspike

not entirely convinced it needs any significant balancing... apart from decreasing the energy gained to 10 energy and increasing the recharge of angorodons gaze to prevent it from being so easily used regardless of energy.

will help to slightly lower the spike rate of EOTN bloodspike and allow infuse monks to actually recover from their infusing (seen all too often infuse monks not even having time to self heal after infusing... its extremely difficult to keep up with).

anyway those are my ideas... post your own... i care little what you think of my ideas... i created this thread so people could propose their own ideas so if Izzy was ever to have a look here he would find a nice collection of ideas.

so have fun!

Div · Nov 02, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

I made a post on that page with some similar suggestions to yours, but at this point, it's probably too late and the changes won't reflect our opinions.

Divinus Stella · Nov 02, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Good intentions overall, i dont really think bloodspike is imbalanced but it would be nice if they adjusted the spike skills to make them trigger prot, things like oppressive gaze and shadow strike hit with non-lifesteal just under (59?), would make a huge difference if the prot monk could save a few spikes.

I'd like to see shields up get a buff to back how it was before its nerf, it would scale paragon pressure down without making the paragon crying lobby whine about them not being able to farm, would also deal with gimmics like ranger spike in HA.

Captain Robo · Nov 02, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

* Spiritway
* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall
* Bloodspike

Quote:

* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall

Quote:

* Three Monk backlines

I'm scared. This could go wrong in so many ways.

Div · Nov 02, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I'm scared. This could go wrong in so many ways.

Like nerfing monk skills so that we need a 4 monk backline. Oh Ok.

«Ripskin · Nov 02, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

My monk is shivering right now.

Hong Kong Evil · Nov 02, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy from official wiki 31/10/2007
I'm working on Next balance update, so I'll be checking out the forums. Here are the list of issues I'm looking into.

* Spiritway
* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall
* Bloodspike

it means to remove ritualist in pvp?

ritualist is nerfed again and again, splinter weapon and Ancestor Rage are the last useful skills for ritualist, the the two skills are nerfed, why we need a ritualist in pvp?

pls tell me what is the function of ritualist?

a healer? weaker than monk

channeling spike? nerf and nerf again

spiritway? nerf and nerf again

the last position is to be a support class that use splinter weapon and Ancestor Rage, now you want to nerf them?

Riotgear · Nov 02, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

SP spike continues to be ignored.

Ancestor's Rage --> Less damage, lower recharge, or better yet, change it to something like Zealot's Fire

Splinter Weapon abuse --> FIX THE NPCS BALLING UP. The PvE AI can figure out how to spread out, is it that hard to have archers do the same?

Angorodon's Gaze --> Hi! I'm Vampiric Gaze! Actually I'm not, I steal more life and cost 3 energy instead of 10, but I'm balanced because you have to cast Blood Drinker first!

Razz L Dazzle · Nov 02, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I dont' have a problem with splinter weapon seems fine to me. NPC and VoD problem. Ancestor's Rage really just needs a light adjustment. Maybe more pressure based than spike based is all i can think of.

Vaga · Nov 02, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

delete mirandels post imo, full of wrong.

* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Recall

These sound alright...would like to see paragons and instagib sins on this list as well.

I'm hoping by looking at 3 monk backlines he firstly means 2 monks + falgger and secondly realizes its because of a huge power creep that needs to be fixed which will then let him nerf some of the imbalanced defense.

Greedy Gus · Nov 02, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Good intentions overall

qft. I think it's unfortunate that izzy isn't interested in taking a deep look at the way the passive defense vs. paragons metagame affects the regular balanced build archetype, but pretty soon we'll have been entrenched in it for so long that I'll just be seen as the crazy, cranky fool if I bring it up again.

But at least he's stilll actively looking at the smaller metagame builds that pop up and keeping them in line.

DIH49 · Nov 02, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Want to nerf 3 monk backlines? Nerf BLS and buff healing prayers. It's as simple as that.

kvndoom · Nov 02, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I suggested somewhere that a buff to Life Sheath so that it casts faster and negates health loss and not just damage would make it a decent counter to blood spike. Buff to damage reduction? Maybe, but too big a buff there would break it, it's a fine line. A 1/2s cast would make it a decent spike counter, period. It could ease up Infuse dependency somewhat.

revaer · Nov 02, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Nerf to the sp sin would be cool as well.

Not to bash Izzy but judging by the "nerfs" it has received in the past, I doubt this will happen. I guess he just wants sins to see play.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 02, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

They've tried to fix the NPC AI at VoD multiple times without success. The primary reason for this the amount of time it takes to kill NPCs doesn't give them much time to move. Even if they did spread apart after an AoE ping or two, they are dead by that time due to their inherently low health and the VoD shout. I think it's safe to assume at this point that a fix isn't in the works.

However, that doesn't mean nerfing Splinter Weapon is a good idea. Nerfing Splinter would be terrible for the game right now.

Cass · Nov 02, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Game would be more fun with Soul Reaping and Expertise adjusted. End of spirit spam trash, end of bloodspike, end of bunny thumping, end of ranger spike. Maybe Leadership should be nerfed too, to round it out.

I'm not saying these should be nerfed to the ground, but more like adjusted so that for example Soul Reaping reduces necro skill costs, and maybe still gives some boon when some friend or foe dies, but also doesn't trigger +1000 energy when a random spirit dies.

Also teleports should be limited in range. It's somewhat OK to zap around the battlefield every 20 secs with an aftercast and/or give-away hex, but zapping from the battlefield back to complete safety is less fun.

notrich · Nov 02, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

3 monks is not a problem... 8 symbolic strike monks is really the way they want to go with this game.

Riotgear · Nov 02, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by revaer

Not to bash Izzy but judging by the "nerfs" it has received in the past, I doubt this will happen. I guess he just wants sins to see play.

Izzy stated on his talk page a while ago that he doesn't think SP spike is the only build keeping Assassins in play.

In other words, he wants to nerf it, the problem is that he's kind of incompetent.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 02, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

I don't really see the problem with bloodspike, other than a slight nerf to the energy return on angorodon's gaze (or an increase in recharge) there's nothing really wrong with it.

And it's really easy to beat.

Bio-Flame · Nov 02, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Why would a splinter weapon nerf be bad for the game?
I can't see why it would be bad...